Anglia & Thames Valley Bus Forum

Railway Operators => General Railway Discussion => Topic started by: barryb on August 09, 2019, 11:06:31 PM

Title: December 2019 timetables
Post by: barryb on August 09, 2019, 11:06:31 PM
Some December 2019 timetable data is starting to appear (to be taken with a pinch of salt, obviously)

One possible change that appears to be on the way is that it looks like Cambridge North is losing the KX slow and gaining the Liverpool St semi fast, meaning that Cambridge North loses a lot of direct commuter links and will have less rush hour trains.

If the data is complete, it also looks like the Norwich - Stansted service may be a bit of a disappointment!

https://live-departures.info/rail/timetable-comparison/?q=CMB&s=mf&v=d
Title: Re: December 2019 timetables
Post by: Steves on August 10, 2019, 11:04:19 AM
I think I saw a suggestion in one of the GA quotes that this is the introductory service.

On the hand,  GA has form for introducing services which look good but are almost completely useless.
Title: Re: December 2019 timetables
Post by: barryb on August 10, 2019, 01:23:43 PM
The Cambridge North situation is worse than I'd realised.  There's no Greater Anglia services from the villages arriving before 9am!

And if you say that maybe they're missing the opportunity of attracting people commuting to it by forgetting that the Science park is a huge employment site and only thinking of people going the other way... Return departures from London are half hourly during the day until 4pm, then a gap of over 90m, then hourly.

It's a service that would only make sense if Cambridge North was just a leisure destination, which I'm pretty surely it's not.
Title: Re: December 2019 timetables
Post by: TCD813 on August 10, 2019, 08:13:10 PM
The Cambridge North situation is worse than I'd realised.  There's no Greater Anglua services from the villages arriving before 9am!

And if you say that maybe they're missing the opportunity of attracting people commuting to it by forgetting that the Science park is a huge employment site and only thinking of people going the other way... Return departures from London are half hourly during the day until 4pm, then a gap of over 90m, then hourly.

It's a service that would only make sense if Cambridge North was just a leisure destination, which I'm pretty surely it's not.

I’ve been on local radio a number of times castigating the design and service levels from the station.
Title: Re: December 2019 timetables
Post by: barryb on August 10, 2019, 09:23:26 PM
I’ve been on local radio a number of times castigating the design and service levels from the station.

It was already bad (and so much worse than what we'd been promised...).  I'd not anticipated them making it worse :-(

The thing that's *even* worse is that GA are so unreliable at the station; the Norwich services haven't been the best for a few years and their London services turn round short at Cambridge at the slightest whiff of a problem.
Title: Re: December 2019 timetables
Post by: barryb on November 10, 2019, 11:15:35 PM
National Rail:
Quote
Withdrawal of Cambridge North Thameslink service
The existing one per hour Thameslink service between Cambridge and Cambridge North will be withdrawn to release a train path for the introduction of a new direct Greater Anglia service between Cambridge North and London Liverpool Street. This Thameslink service was a temporary measure while Greater Anglia worked to introduce its new train fleets.

*suspicious face*

Remember the Thameslink service Cambridge North was supposed to be getting?
Title: Re: December 2019 timetables
Post by: Martin on November 13, 2019, 09:17:04 PM
National Rail:
*suspicious face*

Remember the Thameslink service Cambridge North was supposed to be getting?
The Thameslink service will terminate at Cambridge using the bay platforms that are currently used by Greater Anglia. This is because the Greater Anglian new fleet won't fit in the bay platforms.
Whether all this was known at the time who knows.
Title: Re: December 2019 timetables
Post by: barryb on November 14, 2019, 06:11:41 PM
Presumably not.

As someone lives in the area I'd have so much rather had the Thameslink semi-fast for the connection opportunities.  I see the value of the Thameslink slow for people that commute to here.  The GA semi fast... I suppose some leisure travellers might find it useful.
Title: Re: December 2019 timetables
Post by: Steves on November 14, 2019, 08:22:31 PM
The Thameslink service will terminate at Cambridge using the bay platforms that are currently used by Greater Anglia. This is because the Greater Anglian new fleet won't fit in the bay platforms.
Whether all this was known at the time who knows.
Thank you.  That is new to me but almost certainly true.  The Cambridge bays won't take 12 (x20m equivalent) coaches.

12 coach trains are a problem at Cambridge.  Platforms 7 and 8 take 12s with no issues.  I think platform 1 takes 12 coaches but not 387s southbound because the gangway obscures the driver's view of the signal.  I don't think platform 4 takes 12 coaches.  The Brightons are always 12s and a significant number of King's Cross fasts as well which couple in the platform to make matters worse.

Looking at the planned service after the timetable change on realtimetrains, there are a few GA trains using the south end bays early in the morning so they could be diagrammed for a single set.  During the day, the Thameslink slows monopolise the platforms 2 and 3 as they have long layovers.

There are issues elsewhere on the GA network with those trains as well which suggests that no one in the bid team thought it through before putting them in the bid (like the Brantham depot)

The new GA trains will be 5 car or 10 car but the coaches are longer - effectively equivalent to 6 x20m and 12 x 20m in total length.
Title: Re: December 2019 timetables
Post by: Julia_Hayward on November 15, 2019, 08:09:06 AM
You're right, P4 isn't long enough for 12. I had assumed that the Cambridge North bay would be long enough to turn around a 12-car set, but come to think of it I'm not sure it can...
Title: Re: December 2019 timetables
Post by: TCD813 on November 15, 2019, 02:01:35 PM
You're right, P4 isn't long enough for 12. I had assumed that the Cambridge North bay would be long enough to turn around a 12-car set, but come to think of it I'm not sure it can...

CMB – Cambridge North Station – was built in a most unsatisfactory manner. Quite aside from the lack of a ticket office (obviously not needed as our fares are so simple) it has been built with two through platforms and a bay instead of three through platforms.

If platform 3 – the bay – had been built as a through platform, with suitable crossovers to the north of Fen Road, platform 2 could have been used for terminating trains allowing more flexibility and fewer conflicting movements.

The Fen Road crossing barriers close the road for over 40 minutes of many daytime hours.