Author Topic: Bus stop map  (Read 6420 times)

Offline alanv

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Bus stop map
« on: August 25, 2009, 05:51:03 PM »
From Cambs Transport

The County Council have just published some maps claiming to show the
routes guided buses will take when they exit the Busway track in St
Ives and Cambridge. This seems to include Huntingdon and Somersham:

  http://ow.ly/15MmjL

Also follow the links to

Local liaison forum notes 05/05/09 St. Ives Longstanton


Adam Dowling

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2009, 06:08:48 PM »
I don't think its just me that thinks that the services look like a bit of a mess.
Milton Road in rush hour will be almost impossible to navigate due to there being no guideway on that section.
It also seems that people wanting to go to Huntingdon from Fenstanton, say will have to change buses in St Ives.

I would guess that Services A and B are Stagecoach in Huntingdonshire the Fens and Service C is run by Whippet, since that seems to shadow the B route as far as St Ives.

Offline Martin

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2009, 06:30:32 PM »
I don't think its just me that thinks that the services look like a bit of a mess.
Milton Road in rush hour will be almost impossible to navigate due to there being no guideway on that section.
It also seems that people wanting to go to Huntingdon from Fenstanton, say will have to change buses in St Ives.

I would guess that Services A and B are Stagecoach in Huntingdonshire the Fens and Service C is run by Whippet, since that seems to shadow the B route as far as St Ives.
How feasible in the future would it be for Milton Road to (at least in part) be widened thus providing a bus lane in and out of the city?

Offline barryb

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2009, 07:39:17 PM »
If the Whippet service isn't going to get to use the same bus stop as the majority of the services on the route, and if worse still they're getting kicked out the city centre, that's really awful bad news for them - especially when they've gone and got new buses for the privilege.  :(

If not, then it still seems bananas that all the buses from St Ives won't leave from the same place.  If it's that there's not space in the bus station, surely the 13 would be a better candidate for getting kicked out?

I presume the Somersham service replaces the 15?  If so what's happening to the other villages it served?

There's still no differentiation between the operators in the publicity or their liveries.  If they're not going to to joint ticketing then this really is going to be a recipe for confused and angry passengers!
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 07:41:02 PM by barryb »

Offline Suzy Scott

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2009, 08:14:35 PM »
This ties in with the timetable I mentioned a few weeks ago. Would anyone like me to scan the draft timetable tomorrow, seeing as how the maps are up?

Re the St Ives buses being half from Parkside, half from Drummer St - yes, presumably because those will eventually go to AH/T P&R.

Maps attached.
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Offline Steves

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2009, 09:05:00 PM »
Quote
How feasible in the future would it be for Milton Road to (at least in part) be widened thus providing a bus lane in and out of the city?

It would be feasible except for the trees.  There was an outcry when a few of them had to be felled.  To be fair, adding an extra lane would change the whole aspect of the road.  I think that a reversible (with the flow) guideway down the middle of the road is possible instead of the current bus lane but that would hit the 9/X9 and Citi 4(?) as well the taxis which would not be able to use it.

Offline Martin

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2009, 09:11:43 PM »
Quote
How feasible in the future would it be for Milton Road to (at least in part) be widened thus providing a bus lane in and out of the city?

It would be feasible except for the trees.  There was an outcry when a few of them had to be felled.  To be fair, adding an extra lane would change the whole aspect of the road.  I think that a reversible (with the flow) guideway down the middle of the road is possible instead of the current bus lane but that would hit the 9/X9 and Citi 4(?) as well the taxis which would not be able to use it.
Somehow I can't help thinking that the answer to really improving bus provision in Cambridge will require bus lanes in and out of the city. Hills Road and Milton Road would both benefit from full bus lanes into and out of the city. To provide them though, either requires the felling of some trees, or as you suggest a contraflow bus lane - however they are only practical where there are no local services stopping along the road.

Offline barryb

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2009, 10:12:37 PM »
Scanned draft timetables?  Yes please!  *jumps up and down*

Offline gc_bus

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2009, 08:31:27 AM »
Scanned draft timetables?  Yes please!  *jumps up and down*

Yes please Suzy :-)

Offline Suzy Scott

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2009, 01:40:26 PM »
Scanned from a paper copy, this draft timetable was available for public collection during the recent St Ives Bus Users surgery.

This timetable only includes the services from Huntingdon & St Ives to/from Cambridge city centre, i.e. not to/from Addenrbrookes, with the exception of a couple of peak journeys, which it is presumed will replace college workings on the 15.

Note that this is only a DRAFT, therefore do not make too many journey plans out of it!


Milton Road in rush hour will be almost impossible to navigate due to there being no guideway on that section.

As far as I am advised, a traffic selective system will hold the green lights, or change them to green, for a guided bus on Milton Road. This will be interesting to compare Guided Bus times versus those of the 9/Park & Ride, that may not be getting allowed through! It is said that the lights will be switched for just 20 secs at a time, to allow this to happen. If it doesn't, well...


I presume the Somersham service replaces the 15?  If so what's happening to the other villages it served?

If the 15 is to come off, I am assuming that the 21 and 29 will be covering the rest, as now. As for Fenstanton, well...???  Must admit the 15 does look like it might stick, but, so did the 45 come to that! So, we shall need to wait and see.


There's still no differentiation between the operators in the publicity or their liveries.  If they're not going to to joint ticketing then this really is going to be a recipe for confused and angry passengers!

I was also under the impression that through smartcard ticketing will be usable across Cambs. As for how that will play out, no idea. It might have been an idea to try this out at the same time as the green buses went in service early, but we can't go back in time now.
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Offline Cheltonian

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2009, 02:38:26 PM »
Stagecoach are actually running a trial with smartcards at present. It is working quite well.
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Offline alanv

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2009, 02:42:55 PM »

Offline Martin

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2009, 06:06:51 PM »
I must say it is disappointing that there is only an hourly busway service on a Sunday. I would have expected to see at least half hourly even if this meant the service being subsidised to begin with to encourage passenger use. It seems to me to only be a six day a week alternative to the car - considering Cambridge suffers congestion seven days a week I am surprised.

Offline Elsworth Fox

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2009, 06:27:05 PM »
I am a little puzzled by some of these comments.  Are Whippet dropping service 1A, which provides a half-hourly Huntingdon - Fenstanton - Cambridge service?  I would have thought that unlikely.

The main 15 service has not served Somersham for some months.  There is a single 15B journey at college times returning from Cambridge.  Otherwise the village is reliant on connections from the 21 at St Ives, or, once, in the morning peak,at Earith.

Presumably the 15 will continue in some form as it provides the only service for Swavesey, Over, Willingham, and Longstanton village.

Clearly these services are interim ones whilst the southern section of guideway is finished.  I, for one, see them as an improvement, with the current frequency provided by the 55 being maintained and a much enhanced frequency between St. Ives and Cambridge, including a direct service every 20 minutes to the Science Park.  I am also pleased that a regular service from the Marley Road area of St. Ives is being provided.

As to the Sunday service, we shall have to see how it develops.  At least two buses an hour are better than one.  Who knows how it will progress once Northstowe starts.

Offline barryb

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2009, 07:20:08 PM »
Interesting.

I too do fear that it doesn't really offer enough improvements to justify it as a credible alternative to the car.

The M-Sa evening service to Huntingdon is at best no better than it was in Hunts Bus days, and it appears it may be worse.  Journey times appear to be longer than what they were in 553/4/5 days (ie the same as now).  The Sunday service isn't that good, and it doesn't even run in the evenings at all.

It's great that St Ives gets more buses, but a crying shame they leave from different places on the way back.  New Square isn't as central as they'd like to think it is.

It's great that Somersham gets a nice new service, but a very almost hourly daytime service 6 days a week never persuaded anyone to give up their car.  I also just can't see that this service looks viable; Whippet look to be in a much more vulnerable position between St Ives and Cambridge when it's 3ph v 6ph than when it was 2ph v 3ph (though obviously they gain in the places between St Ives and Huntingdon.

The advantage comes down to
- whether Northstowe ever happens
- whether the extra stops between Cambridge and St Ives are enough to support a doubling of the service
- reliability and convenience (real and perceived).

Real convenience for destinations it could pick up some new people is harmed by the different stops for the return buses.  Where should you stand for a bus to Histon?  At the 7 stop.  It's most convenient and it's got the most buses.  Perceived convenience will be hit by the weird location of the B stops - people are going to love the buses that take them from New Square right past the bit they actually want to get off at and onto Regent Street.

Perceived reliability will be hurt the very first time a bus breaks down in an inaccessible place and people are stuck behind it for an hour, then it'll be hurt again the first time they screw up dealing with ice or leaves.


Offline Martin

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2009, 08:05:17 PM »
I have to agree that return buses to a destination should depart from the same location - and they do at the moment - even if it be different bays in Drummer Street.

The Guided Bus departures seem to me to be a step backwards. I would have preferred they found a stop in Emmanuel Street area - perhaps E3. Aren't the only departures there to Addenbrookes. Could that not have been moved to the stop outside Maplin - they could then have had all the Guided Bus departures from the City Centre - as people would expect.

Sadly in truth, until the city centre bus station is moved any new routes are going to be a mess. Just look at the northbound C7 - what a rubbish bay that ended up with and that is neither a low frequency or low usage route.

Offline barryb

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2009, 10:28:25 PM »
There isn't the political will to make a few decisions that are necessary in the interests of the greatest majority but that would be unpopular with a small but doubtless vocal proportion of the population.

Space for buses needs to be made, it needs to be in central Cambridge, and it needs to be in the region of Christ's Pieces / Emmanual Road.

But it'll never happen...

Offline Elsworth Fox

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2009, 11:11:51 PM »
There isn't the political will to make a few decisions that are necessary in the interests of the greatest majority but that would be unpopular with a small but doubtless vocal proportion of the population.

This is the problem, the articulate minority, backed by the media who will do anything to point out problems with public transport, object to or misrepresent most developments that will benefit the passenger on the 'Cambridge Omnibus', especially if it interferes with:

a) any green space,

b) any trees no matter how diseased,

c) their driving their cars to wherever they want to go to.

Offline gc_bus

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2009, 08:08:31 AM »
I had to read the timetables/CCC maps a number of times to actually believe the fact that journeys back from Cambridge actually start from different places - it is totally absurd to be doing that!! It is confusing enough already with the Citi4 dropping off from Kings hedges in Emmanual Street but then picking up for the return in Downing Street and that's for seasoned travellers. The guided busway will not make any friends with this sort of rediculous arrangement IMHO.

Offline alanv

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2009, 11:43:04 AM »

Offline Julia_Hayward

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2009, 11:57:11 AM »
There isn't the political will to make a few decisions that are necessary in the interests of the greatest majority but that would be unpopular with a small but doubtless vocal proportion of the population.

This is the problem, the articulate minority, backed by the media who will do anything to point out problems with public transport, object to or misrepresent most developments that will benefit the passenger on the 'Cambridge Omnibus', especially if it interferes with:

a) any green space,

b) any trees no matter how diseased,

c) their driving their cars to wherever they want to go to.

That's true of a lot of parts of the UK, and if that were all we had to contend with we could probably get by. Where Cambridge excels is in having the town dominated by the University which owns everything, streets that are far too narrow, and covenanted land and grade I listed buildings all over the place.

Offline Suzy Scott

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2009, 01:13:15 PM »
Stagecoach are actually running a trial with smartcards at present. It is working quite well.

Slightly OT but is that extending into Peterborough, and does it include the PB LocalLink services?
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Offline Cheltonian

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2009, 01:47:13 PM »
Stagecoach are actually running a trial with smartcards at present. It is working quite well.

Slightly OT but is that extending into Peterborough, and does it include the PB LocalLink services?

The limited trial is taking place in Cambridge and Peterborough but at present is only on Stagecoach Cambridgeshire vehicles. The smartcards are not generally available to the public yet.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 01:50:42 PM by locallink »
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Adam Dowling

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2009, 04:09:40 PM »
Stagecoach are actually running a trial with smartcards at present. It is working quite well.

Slightly OT but is that extending into Peterborough, and does it include the PB LocalLink services?

The limited trial is taking place in Cambridge and Peterborough but at present is only on Stagecoach Cambridgeshire vehicles. The smartcards are not generally available to the public yet.
A driver I know was rather flummoxed by this yesterday, it seems the ticket machine wouldn't recognise the card!

Offline Derrick Pancel

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Re: Bus stop map
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2009, 11:38:54 PM »
As the new ticket machines (ERG 5000 ??) have been fitted to vehicles, one might expect them to recognise smartcards, in the same way that Oyster cards are used ?

At least problems are being discovered before the roll-out, which is the purpose of any trial :)