Author Topic: More cutbacks?  (Read 4257 times)

Offline Dale

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More cutbacks?
« on: July 26, 2010, 03:17:31 PM »
First Northampton has cancelled the registrations for both the 5/5A 'between Camphill and Southfields' and also the 22 from Greyfriars Bus St'n to St Giles Park, wef 19th September 2010.


Could be just a part of an imminent revision I suppose but aren't they both little used services nowadays?.


Dale


Offline J621BVG

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2010, 04:37:01 PM »
First Northampton has cancelled the registrations for both the 5/5A 'between Camphill and Southfields' and also the 22 from Greyfriars Bus St'n to St Giles Park, wef 19th September 2010.


Could be just a part of an imminent revision I suppose but aren't they both little used services nowadays?.


Dale


Oh dear... Sooner or later there won't be any First routes left in  Northampton! I also wonder if this is a ploy to cut the peak vehicle requirement, thus so they won't have to bring in replacements for the Citybuses.
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Offline passenger933

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2010, 05:33:41 PM »
First Northampton has cancelled the registrations for both the 5/5A 'between Camphill and Southfields' and also the 22 from Greyfriars Bus St'n to St Giles Park, wef 19th September 2010.


Could be just a part of an imminent revision I suppose but aren't they both little used services nowadays?.


Dale




I'm not surprised about the 5/5a, as that has been dying a slow death for a time now. The 22 is more of a surprise though, as it does seem to get reasonable passenger numbers (for First Northampton, anyway), and that service was taken over from MK Metro (as it was called then) a year or two back when FN had a competing service 27 over a fairly similar route. It will be interesting to see if any of the other local operators are prepared to dip their toes in the water and give it a go.

Offline Dale

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2010, 05:38:21 PM »
Well I suppose that the ever-reducing number of routes will at least make it easier to abandon the whole operation eventually. After all, for a PLC operator looking to make profits for shareholders, there is only so much you can take out of a very small operation with, presumably, disproportionate overheads.

Dale

Offline passenger933

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2010, 06:06:29 PM »
By my reckoning, these service cuts will leave FN with just 8 routes in Northampton, plus the Connect Wellingborough services. What a sorry state of affairs for those of us old enough to remember NCT in it's heyday, when Daimler half-cabs would fill St. James' garage. The present fleet must only take up a small proportion of that site, which leads me on to another slant on this topic - the resale value of the garage must be considerable even in these recessionary times, and a cash inflow from it's sale would have First's management and shareholders rubbing their hands with glee. 

Offline AN68

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2010, 08:26:01 PM »
As the 5/5A do not run to Camp Hill. I assume that service 12 which does run to Camp Hill has also had its registration cancelled. Brian, if your reading this please put FN out of its misery, then we might get a full evening service which the Stagecoach served parts of the town enjoy.

Offline Dale

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2010, 09:31:11 PM »
I understood that Wirst no longer owned the depot. Didn't they sell it and now lease it back (since last year?).

Dale



By my reckoning, these service cuts will leave FN with just 8 routes in Northampton, plus the Connect Wellingborough services. What a sorry state of affairs for those of us old enough to remember NCT in it's heyday, when Daimler half-cabs would fill St. James' garage. The present fleet must only take up a small proportion of that site, which leads me on to another slant on this topic - the resale value of the garage must be considerable even in these recessionary times, and a cash inflow from it's sale would have First's management and shareholders rubbing their hands with glee. 

Offline Dale

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2010, 09:35:38 PM »
This could well be an error at VOSA. I already put it in inverted commas as it didn't seem right (but is exactly as VOSA report it).

Of course Wirst may be cancelling the 5, 5A, 12, 22 and, while they're at it, perhaps the 4, 4A, 29, 30.........

 :(

Dale




As the 5/5A do not run to Camp Hill. I assume that service 12 which does run to Camp Hill has also had its registration cancelled. Brian, if your reading this please put FN out of its misery, then we might get a full evening service which the Stagecoach served parts of the town enjoy.

Offline Mutly

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2010, 11:16:28 PM »
 I'm very Suprised to hear about the 22 being withdrawn, as that was my local route when i lived at Upton, whilst i was there, i was told that the route was actually subsidised by the Upton Development, or somebody to do with the building of the estate there.

 However, the building work on the site has slowed down to an near standstill in the last year, so i wonder if the developers have decided to stop funding this service, and if so that is going to leave quite a large area without a service.

 One possibility would be for Arriva to extend the 50 to/from Swan Valley into the Estate, as it runs past , however at the moment the 50 only runs when the shifts change at the industrial estate.

 about two months ago, a couple of the local Veg told me that First were puling out of Northampton altogether (they actually said that the Council were kicking them out, but i don't think any Council has that sort of power), and Arriva were coming in to take over the services, fingers crossed that rumour is true, as the pillocks at the MCC would have a right fit if Stagecoach ran everything in the town (personallly i would like to see that happen, as it has been pointed out, at least Stagecoach do have vehicles that can travel in the Dark), so i believe that Arriva would take an interest, but thats all speculation.



 

Offline Suzy Scott

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2010, 09:39:00 AM »
#
PF0007071/252 - UNITED COUNTIES OMNIBUS CO LTD T/A STAGECOACH EAST, ROTHERSTHORPE AVENUE, ROTHERSTHORPE AVENUE IND'L ESTATE, NORTHAMPTON, NN4 8UT

    * Variation Accepted: Operating between Northampton and Bellinge given service number 17 effective from 20-Sep-2010. To amend Timetable.

#
PF0007071/287 - UNITED COUNTIES OMNIBUS CO LTD T/A STAGECOACH EAST, ROTHERSTHORPE AVENUE, ROTHERSTHORPE AVENUE IND'L ESTATE, NORTHAMPTON, NN4 8UT

    * Registration Accepted
    * Starting Point: Bus Station
    * Finish Point: Bus Station
    * Via:
    * Service Number: 22
    * Service Type: Normal Stopping
    * Effective Date: 20-SEP-2010
    * Other Details: Mondays-Saturdays half hourly

#
PF0007071/289 - UNITED COUNTIES OMNIBUS CO LTD T/A STAGECOACH EAST, ROTHERSTHORPE AVENUE, ROTHERSTHORPE AVENUE IND'L ESTATE, NORTHAMPTON, NN4 8UT

    * Registration Accepted
    * Starting Point: Southfields
    * Finish Point: Duston
    * Via:
    * Service Number: 5
    * Service Type: Normal Stopping
    * Effective Date: 20-SEP-2010
    * Other Details: Mondays-Saturdays half horuly

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Offline harz99

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2010, 10:18:13 AM »
So presumably either First were receiving an element of subsidy from Northants which has been withdrawn from them; or S/C have indicated they will do more for the same subsidy/or operate without subsidy, either way its seems some of the previous posters on this topic have got their wish.

Offline passenger933

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2010, 05:52:05 PM »
#
PF0007071/252 - UNITED COUNTIES OMNIBUS CO LTD T/A STAGECOACH EAST, ROTHERSTHORPE AVENUE, ROTHERSTHORPE AVENUE IND'L ESTATE, NORTHAMPTON, NN4 8UT

    * Variation Accepted: Operating between Northampton and Bellinge given service number 17 effective from 20-Sep-2010. To amend Timetable.

#
PF0007071/287 - UNITED COUNTIES OMNIBUS CO LTD T/A STAGECOACH EAST, ROTHERSTHORPE AVENUE, ROTHERSTHORPE AVENUE IND'L ESTATE, NORTHAMPTON, NN4 8UT

    * Registration Accepted
    * Starting Point: Bus Station
    * Finish Point: Bus Station
    * Via:
    * Service Number: 22
    * Service Type: Normal Stopping
    * Effective Date: 20-SEP-2010
    * Other Details: Mondays-Saturdays half hourly

#
PF0007071/289 - UNITED COUNTIES OMNIBUS CO LTD T/A STAGECOACH EAST, ROTHERSTHORPE AVENUE, ROTHERSTHORPE AVENUE IND'L ESTATE, NORTHAMPTON, NN4 8UT

    * Registration Accepted
    * Starting Point: Southfields
    * Finish Point: Duston
    * Via:
    * Service Number: 5
    * Service Type: Normal Stopping
    * Effective Date: 20-SEP-2010
    * Other Details: Mondays-Saturdays half horuly



This is interesting as the 2 registered routes do not appear to be like-for-like replacements for the FN services - the 5 is apparently to run across town from Southfields to Duston, and the 22, well that could be anything as VOSA states that it will start and finish at the Bus Station. ???

I don't know if the changes to the 17 are part of this package. At present there are only 3 outward and 4 inward journeys, from the Bus Station to Billing Aquadrome via Kettering Rd, WFC and Bellinge.

Offline AN68

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2010, 09:01:46 PM »
I suspect that the following will happen.

First will continue to operate the 12 to Camp Hill as I think this is on a different registration.

The new Stagecoach 22 will operate only to Upton as per the original 22 operated by MK Metro.

The new Stagecoach 5 will operate from Southfileds and down Billing Road to Greyfriars, it will then continue across town following the route of the ertswhile First 27 to Duston.

Anybody care to comment or take a little wager against me?

Offline Dennis Lloyd

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2010, 01:04:14 PM »
Regarding the takeover of services from Wirst in September, presumably Stagecoach Northampton will need extra vehicles to operate these services.

If so has anyone any idea what they might be?

Offline passenger933

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2010, 05:02:38 PM »
I suspect that the following will happen.

First will continue to operate the 12 to Camp Hill as I think this is on a different registration.

The new Stagecoach 22 will operate only to Upton as per the original 22 operated by MK Metro.

The new Stagecoach 5 will operate from Southfileds and down Billing Road to Greyfriars, it will then continue across town following the route of the ertswhile First 27 to Duston.

Anybody care to comment or take a little wager against me?

I wouldn't bet against you on that, it seems to be logical. My only comment is regarding proposed cross-town 5 - I thought that locally Stagecoach were not keen on such operations for reliability purposes (e.g. the splitting of the old cross-town Blackthorn - Duston into 2 separate routes a few years ago).

Regarding the takeover of services from Wirst in September, presumably Stagecoach Northampton will need extra vehicles to operate these services.

If so has anyone any idea what they might be?

I wouldn't be surprised to see reserve SLF Darts 33819/20 brought back into front-line service as part of the additional vehicle requirement , but not necessarily for dedicated use on these routes. Unless there are any other changes afoot which may reduce vehicle requirement, I reckon they will need more than just these 2.

Offline Derrick Pancel

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2010, 05:26:49 PM »
The withdrawn Cambridge Olympians could be put to use ?

Offline Mutly

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2010, 11:36:21 PM »
 Apparently there are Six ADL Enviro 300's on order (27681-6), according to somebody on the Stagecoach yahoogroup, and while he guesses they may be for the Daventry Dart Routes, i wonder if these could possibly be for the 5,

 Although a batch Of ALX300 MAN's have just been withdrawn for Cascade at Oxford this week , i wonder if they may be on up to here way Here to Join 22920/21,

However, what i do fiind strange about this information is, Is that these would be the first vehicles (that i can think of) at Northampton that would require Ad-Blu. and i thought that United Counties were going to stick with MAN or Scania chassis, as per previous deliveries, with all new ADL chassis, that requires Ad-Blu going to Cambus/Viscount, however the spilt with Stagecoach East and the formation of Stagecoach Midlands may have changed a few plans.

 Stagecoach however do seem to be taking an step towards an expansion in Northampton, I wonder if these additional routes may be suitable for the MAN Engined Enviro 400's in Manchester, which if the length of time the also Non Standard Scania's stayed in Manchester is anything to go on, then they'll be ready for cascade soon, and with them being MAN Engined with out the need for AD-Blu, then they would possibly fit in to the plans for Northampton, if that is indeed what the plan .

 The 22 i can see is going back to Half Hourly, which was its origional frequency when it terminated at St Crispins, and i think this may be operated by a Dart as the loadings on an Half Hour Frequency may be a bit heavy for a Solo.

Offline J621BVG

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2010, 11:44:49 AM »
Apparently there are Six ADL Enviro 300's on order (27681-6), according to somebody on the Stagecoach yahoogroup, and while he guesses they may be for the Daventry Dart Routes, i wonder if these could possibly be for the 5,

 Although a batch Of ALX300 MAN's have just been withdrawn for Cascade at Oxford this week , i wonder if they may be on up to here way Here to Join 22920/21,

However, what i do fiind strange about this information is, Is that these would be the first vehicles (that i can think of) at Northampton that would require Ad-Blu. and i thought that United Counties were going to stick with MAN or Scania chassis, as per previous deliveries, with all new ADL chassis, that requires Ad-Blu going to Cambus/Viscount, however the spilt with Stagecoach East and the formation of Stagecoach Midlands may have changed a few plans.

 Stagecoach however do seem to be taking an step towards an expansion in Northampton, I wonder if these additional routes may be suitable for the MAN Engined Enviro 400's in Manchester, which if the length of time the also Non Standard Scania's stayed in Manchester is anything to go on, then they'll be ready for cascade soon, and with them being MAN Engined with out the need for AD-Blu, then they would possibly fit in to the plans for Northampton, if that is indeed what the plan .

 The 22 i can see is going back to Half Hourly, which was its origional frequency when it terminated at St Crispins, and i think this may be operated by a Dart as the loadings on an Half Hour Frequency may be a bit heavy for a Solo.
If Stagecoach do hopefully expand in Northampton, I think it will be bye bye First in Northampton, because no-one will use the tatty vehicles they have, which will mean they will give up more routes to satisfy shareholders.
East Londoner

Offline adrian britchford

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2010, 12:40:31 PM »
Strong rumours abound in Leicester that Centrebus are to take over Judges Mini Coaches,

Offline andymacp

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Re: More cutbacks?
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2010, 02:18:13 PM »
The 5/5A operate from Southfields to town as far as i know.
The service was split a couple of years ago and Town to Camp Hill is now service 12.
It is possible the vehicles operate both services changing service numbers at Bus station.