Author Topic: First Northampton Happenings 2012  (Read 25363 times)

Offline Suzy Scott

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First Northampton Happenings 2012
« on: January 02, 2012, 12:58:10 AM »
This is a new format of note pages, for general day-to-day sightings, run-of-the-mill daily observations, and even the more unusual strays spotted in daily operation.

Open up a separate thread for service changes, and major announcements (i.e. PI callings, new ownership, cessation of operations, that kind of thing!)

This thread shall continue throughout 2012, but Admins reserve the right to cut one and start again if there are more than 250 postings in one particular thread, or if there is an argument or serious off-topic problems etc.

Enjoy!
Suzy Scott
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Find all my current and recent photos at ScotBus online! Update Pending

Adam Dowling

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2012, 08:59:38 PM »
Message on EABG saying that Volvo B7L 66334 MV02VBZ has been transferred to Norwich from Northampton, apparently the Scanias at Norwich are going the other way!

More clapped out junk for Northampton then  ::)

Offline AN68

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2012, 09:28:00 PM »
Scanias  eh!! Now which other major operator in Northampton appears to be standardising on Scanias, and has a dislike of Volvos? Conspiracy theory or another small step to the Stagecoach takeover of FiN.

Offline Dennis Lloyd

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2012, 01:33:56 PM »
This could be good news for Northampton !! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;

Is it possible that the transfer of 66334 to Norwich is the prelude to the break up of the fleet in Northampton and First getting out of Northampton altogether.

Just a thought but we can hope can't we?

Offline andymacp

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2012, 01:47:52 PM »
Northampton did operate Scanias about 10 years ago prior to recieving some of the Volvo B7 single deckers after the Commonwealth Games in Manchester back in 2002.

Offline ECBusman

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2012, 05:45:03 PM »
Message on EABG saying that Volvo B7L 66334 MV02VBZ has been transferred to Norwich from Northampton, apparently the Scanias at Norwich are going the other way!

More clapped out junk for Northampton then  ::)

What's the betting that Norwich'll get the rest of the batch? lol Don't worry Norwich's Scanias aren't that bad mate. lol

Offline Andy

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2012, 05:48:18 PM »
Message on EABG saying that Volvo B7L 66334 MV02VBZ has been transferred to Norwich from Northampton, apparently the Scanias at Norwich are going the other way!

More clapped out junk for Northampton then  ::)

What's the betting that Norwich'll get the rest of the batch? lol Don't worry Norwich's Scanias aren't that bad mate. lol
That is the plan I believe!

Adam Dowling

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2012, 06:03:56 PM »
Message on EABG saying that Volvo B7L 66334 MV02VBZ has been transferred to Norwich from Northampton, apparently the Scanias at Norwich are going the other way!

More clapped out junk for Northampton then  ::)

What's the betting that Norwich'll get the rest of the batch? lol Don't worry Norwich's Scanias aren't that bad mate. lol


Going by the appalling state of the 05 plate B7TL Ipswich got from Norwich last year, the Scanias will fit in perfectly well at Northampton.....

Offline samw

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2012, 06:21:04 PM »
The Scanias had Ad-Blu fitted and a mechanical overhaul around 2008 and a repaint so might not be as bad.
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Offline J621BVG

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2012, 06:37:18 PM »
The R-DVF and some of the S-TPW Scanias aren't too bad. The rest of them seem pretty rough, especially the R-CNGs, although they've mostly been dumped on Essex I believe...
East Londoner

Offline Andy

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2012, 07:10:55 PM »
The Scanias had Ad-Blu fitted and a mechanical overhaul around 2008 and a repaint so might not be as bad.
Some also had total interior refurbishments including brand new seats (including frames) and flooring so by First's standards they are not too bad R/S/T reg's!

Although the unrefurbished ones will be unpleasent to say the least (if the R-GSF ones they had in King's Lynn are anything to go by!)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 07:15:05 PM by Andy James »

Offline passenger933

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2012, 07:20:57 PM »
It sounds like Northampton is going to get a raw deal from this, whatever batch of vehicles are transferred in. The 02-reg Volvo saloons that are currently here would appear to be better than these Scanias. The average fleet age will increase considerably as well.

Offline Dale

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2012, 05:14:29 PM »
Very 'convenient' that Norwich needs them for air quality issues. Very 'convenient' that Northampton can release them. Very 'convenient' that First Northampton is reported to be available for sale..........(not that anyone will buy them)

All just very 'convenient' and not part of any master plan whatsoever of course.

 ::)

Dale

Offline Stuart Leader

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2012, 06:25:37 PM »
Could be a ploy to put Stagecoach off - don't think they operate L94's or L113's?

Offline Julia_Hayward

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2012, 06:44:31 AM »
Does *anyone* outside the First empire still operate L113s?  :D

Offline samw

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2012, 06:58:37 AM »
AnglianBus have 2; but both ex ChesterBus (First)
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Offline Dale

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2012, 07:38:44 AM »
Stagecoach won't be bothered by what 'tat' is in the fleet as they'd dispose of anything non-standard anyway - and the price for them would be of little significance.

The issue is likely to be far more to do with not wanting to take on responsibility for First Northampton staff pensions and not seeing the need for any more silliness with various competition authorities.

Why not just let it continue to wither away and, when convenient, just register over the couple of key remaining routes?

Dale


Could be a ploy to put Stagecoach off - don't think they operate L94's or L113's?

Offline Mutly

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2012, 12:21:25 AM »
 Stagecoach will not be allowed to take them over anyway, so its immaterial, the town Charter (never mind the MMC), will not allow a single operator to run the town services.

 If anybody is going to take them over, i'd be more inclined to be looking at Centrebus, but after the way First have run the servies down, why would they want to bother, and also take the risk of upsetting Stagecoach if they do feel the need to expand.

 I was told tonight that the planned vehicle exchange with Norwich is now off, as it would cost too much to change the ticketing equipment  on them all.  :D
 Personally i think, if it has been cancelled, then its because "Wirst" got caught red handed to fob us off again  ;D

Offline Kevin S

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2012, 01:00:34 PM »
Stagecoach will not be allowed to take them over anyway, so its immaterial, the town Charter (never mind the MMC), will not allow a single operator to run the town services.

 If anybody is going to take them over, i'd be more inclined to be looking at Centrebus, but after the way First have run the servies down, why would they want to bother, and also take the risk of upsetting Stagecoach if they do feel the need to expand.

 I was told tonight that the planned vehicle exchange with Norwich is now off, as it would cost too much to change the ticketing equipment  on them all.  :D
 Personally i think, if it has been cancelled, then its because "Wirst" got caught red handed to fob us off again  ;D

In what way would this "Charter" stop Stagecoach registering commercial services? That implies it overides the Transport Act.

Offline SURREYMAN

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2012, 06:55:59 AM »
Stagecoach will not be allowed to take them over anyway, so its immaterial, the town Charter (never mind the MMC), will not allow a single operator to run the town services.

 If anybody is going to take them over, i'd be more inclined to be looking at Centrebus, but after the way First have run the servies down, why would they want to bother, and also take the risk of upsetting Stagecoach if they do feel the need to expand.

 I was told tonight that the planned vehicle exchange with Norwich is now off, as it would cost too much to change the ticketing equipment  on them all.  :D
 Personally i think, if it has been cancelled, then its because "Wirst" got caught red handed to fob us off again  ;D

In what way would this "Charter" stop Stagecoach registering commercial services? That implies it overides the Transport Act.
MUTLY,
What is this "Town Charter" ?
On another note, i see that yesterday First were again reported to be selling off parts of their bus business, North and Scotland not doing well etc, not exactly new news but this statement was for the benefit of the Stock market/Financial press.
Roll on the day when First deregister all or part of its Northampton Network!

Offline Dennis Lloyd

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2012, 09:03:38 AM »
Surreyman

Roll on the day when First deregister ALL of it's Northampton network- or what's left of it !!!

Offline Dale

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2012, 05:02:17 PM »
I only ever see the 4/4A and 12 with any significant numbers on board. Do the other (few) routes actually carry many other than in the peaks ?

Dale



Surreyman

Roll on the day when First deregister ALL of it's Northampton network- or what's left of it !!!

Offline bmnpton

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2012, 10:18:20 PM »
29/30 aren't they usually popular. but hey agree dispose of Northampton put us Northamptonians out of our misery. At least we know Stagecoach give these routes a breath of fresh air!

Offline Mutly

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2012, 02:25:06 AM »
Stagecoach will not be allowed to take them over anyway, so its immaterial, the town Charter (never mind the MMC), will not allow a single operator to run the town services.

 If anybody is going to take them over, i'd be more inclined to be looking at Centrebus, but after the way First have run the servies down, why would they want to bother, and also take the risk of upsetting Stagecoach if they do feel the need to expand.

 I was told tonight that the planned vehicle exchange with Norwich is now off, as it would cost too much to change the ticketing equipment  on them all.  :D
 Personally i think, if it has been cancelled, then its because "Wirst" got caught red handed to fob us off again  ;D

In what way would this "Charter" stop Stagecoach registering commercial services? That implies it overides the Transport Act.
MUTLY,
What is this "Town Charter" ?
On another note, i see that yesterday First were again reported to be selling off parts of their bus business, North and Scotland not doing well etc, not exactly new news but this statement was for the benefit of the Stock market/Financial press.
Roll on the day when First deregister all or part of its Northampton Network!

SURREYMAN

God Knows, i'm only going by what i was told about it last night by an Inspector at Greyfiriars. so i  have never looked into but apparently no one company company is allowed to operate more than 50% of locals services.

 Going back to the original subject, it looks as though i may been given some more "dud gen" as the was an unidentified Wright bodied Scania 113 inside the depot when i passed there this morning. o it does look as htough htere are some movements on the way.

 
 
 anyway,

Offline Dennis Lloyd

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2012, 10:40:03 AM »
I was told this morning by a First driver that there are now two Scanias in St. James garage but he could not give me any further details.

So we don't know what they are like but no doubt Northampton will get the rough end of the deal to Norwich's advantage.

Nothing changes !! :( :( :( :(

Offline Mutly

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2012, 01:14:14 AM »
 There is one there at the moment, this is L94 (not an L113 as i first thought) 65572 S572TPW, it has been there all week, one of the mechanics told me earlier that it hasn't been used yet, although it had been moved around the depot earlier

Offline Dennis Lloyd

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2012, 02:00:32 PM »
Scania 65572 which is at Northampton is three years older than the Volvo B7L it replaces.

Same old First, same old attitude, anything is good enough for Northampton, how much longer do we have to put up with this lot unloading their rubbish on us?

Offline bmnpton

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2012, 08:47:48 PM »
Stagecoach will not be allowed to take them over anyway, so its immaterial, the town Charter (never mind the MMC), will not allow a single operator to run the town services.

 If anybody is going to take them over, i'd be more inclined to be looking at Centrebus, but after the way First have run the servies down, why would they want to bother, and also take the risk of upsetting Stagecoach if they do feel the need to expand.

 I was told tonight that the planned vehicle exchange with Norwich is now off, as it would cost too much to change the ticketing equipment  on them all.  :D
 Personally i think, if it has been cancelled, then its because "Wirst" got caught red handed to fob us off again  ;D

In what way would this "Charter" stop Stagecoach registering commercial services? That implies it overides the Transport Act.
MUTLY,
What is this "Town Charter" ?
On another note, i see that yesterday First were again reported to be selling off parts of their bus business, North and Scotland not doing well etc, not exactly new news but this statement was for the benefit of the Stock market/Financial press.
Roll on the day when First deregister all or part of its Northampton Network!

SURREYMAN

God Knows, i'm only going by what i was told about it last night by an Inspector at Greyfiriars. so i  have never looked into but apparently no one company company is allowed to operate more than 50% of locals services.

 Going back to the original subject, it looks as though i may been given some more "dud gen" as the was an unidentified Wright bodied Scania 113 inside the depot when i passed there this morning. o it does look as htough htere are some movements on the way.

 
 
 anyway,

Hang on what about Stagecoach Bedford/Cambridge don't they operate a majority of their services

Adam Dowling

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2012, 10:45:38 PM »

SURREYMAN

God Knows, i'm only going by what i was told about it last night by an Inspector at Greyfiriars. so i  have never looked into but apparently no one company company is allowed to operate more than 50% of locals services.

 Going back to the original subject, it looks as though i may been given some more "dud gen" as the was an unidentified Wright bodied Scania 113 inside the depot when i passed there this morning. o it does look as htough htere are some movements on the way.

 
 
 anyway,

Hang on what about Stagecoach Bedford/Cambridge don't they operate a majority of their services

I think Mutly meant that there is a charter left over from the days of Northampton Corporation, where they weren't allowed to operate more than 50% of town services.

I don't think that would apply to Cambridge or Bedford somehow! ;)

Offline TCD813

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Re: First Northampton Happenings 2012
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2012, 07:58:21 AM »
Stagecoach will not be allowed to take them over anyway, so its immaterial, the Town Charter (never mind the MMC), will not allow a single operator to run the town services...
In what way would this "Charter" stop Stagecoach registering commercial services? That implies it overides the Transport Act.
What is this "Town Charter" ?
God Knows, i'm only going by what i was told about it last night by an Inspector at Greyfriars. so I have never looked into but apparently no one company company is allowed to operate more than 50% of local services.

I'm hazarding a guess, here...

Prior to privatisation and de-regulation there were a number of arrangements between municipal operators who operated local intra-urban services and the companies (usually BTC group or BET group) who operated the surrounding unter-urban and rural services.

Hants & Doset (BTC group) buses running into Bournemouth used to display 'Not on Service to Bournemouth Corporation Passengers'. The out-of-town passengers 'belonged' to H&D the urban passengers to BCT.

On the other hand, Southdown Motor Services (BET group) had a different approach:

Quote from: Wikipedia
In 1946, a co-ordination agreement with Portsmouth Corporation was reached, splitting mileage and receipts on a 57:43 share, Southdown being the minority. This often had the result, at the end of the year, that buses from one operator would be put onto routes of the other to balance the mileage. The driver/conductor would not change, thereby working on a 'foreign' vehicle. This replaced an earlier agreement dating from 1931 involving protective fares on Southdown routes within the city. The co-ordination of services, dubbed Portsmouth Area Joint Transport Services, lasted until deregulation in 1986.
...
In 1958, mileage agreements were reached with the London Transport Executive for services in Crawley and with Brighton, Hove & District Omnibus Company and Brighton Corporation for services in Brighton - establishing Brighton Area Transport Services, similar to the arrangements in Portsmouth established in the previous decade. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southdown_Motor_Services)

What is not mentioned in Wikipedia is that CPPTD (Pompey) buses operated well outside the city boundaries under this agreement – to Leigh Park (Portsmouth Corporation-owned 'overspill', in Havant Borough) and Portchester (in Fareham Urban District).

Perhaps this 'charter' is a former agreement between United Counties and Northampton City Transport which was swept away by the legislation which introduced de-regulation?
TCD813? The reg of a Southdown Motor Services, Northern Counties bodied, Leyland Titan PD3/4 FH39/30F (popularly dubbed 'Queen Mary') from the late 50s.
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