Author Topic: Out of date bus stop locations  (Read 536 times)

Offline John Wakefield

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Out of date bus stop locations
« on: September 14, 2019, 09:10:57 AM »
Looking at the various bus timetables many still have out of date lications, ie Stapleford Post Office which closed years ago. Bus compaines (and local authorities) need to get these put right, much better to use street names rather than premises that a liable to change over the years. So the stop at Stapleford should be renamed Church Street.

Offline Elsworth Fox

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Re: Out of date bus stop locations
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2019, 03:56:17 PM »
The use of old names is sometimes necessary because that is the name by which the majority know a particular point.  Many years ago, when I worked in South Derbyshire, we had a stop known as the 'Old Post Office'.  I don't know how long the Post Office had gone but it would have been a brave person who changed the name.  Another stop was known simply as 'Black Shed' but when I asked where the shed was, I was told it had been knocked down years ago.  Having said that, I accept that over time as the population changes, names have to be kept under review.

Offline John Wakefield

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Re: Out of date bus stop locations
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2019, 04:38:46 PM »
And one wonders these days why few people use the buses, those who knew those old names will have been long gone, and newcomers to the area will not relate to them. I can understand using names of buildings, post offices and the like in rural area's where there are no road signs or indeed sign posted road names. But in this day and age one needs readily identifiable locations, both on the ground and by mobile phone. 
I would add that Traveline use road locations ie on the City 7 they list a stop at  'near Maris Lane', where by Stagecoach still show it as 'Great Shelford Post Office' which has now moved to Hinton Way!
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 05:51:57 PM by John Wakefield »

Offline HughT

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Re: Out of date bus stop locations
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2019, 05:18:12 PM »
Traveline stop names are from the national database. Stagecoach (and possibly other operators) simply use whatever they want. No idea why. But even the national database uses buildings as reference points, often pubs as well as shops. I agree that some designation that's less likely to change would be preferable.

Offline Coast_Hopper

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Re: Out of date bus stop locations
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2019, 06:24:29 PM »
Looking at the various bus timetables many still have out of date lications, ie Stapleford Post Office which closed years ago. Bus compaines (and local authorities) need to get these put right, much better to use street names rather than premises that a liable to change over the years. So the stop at Stapleford should be renamed Church Street.

What happens if Church St would be 1 to 2 miles long with 6 or 7 stops on route, do they name all 7 Church Street

Offline Coast_Hopper

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Re: Out of date bus stop locations
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2019, 06:26:31 PM »
Traveline stop names are from the national database. Stagecoach (and possibly other operators) simply use whatever they want. No idea why. But even the national database uses buildings as reference points, often pubs as well as shops. I agree that some designation that's less likely to change would be preferable.

Just as easy to change the stop name at the time of change

Offline centralsimon

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Re: Out of date bus stop locations
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2019, 07:55:47 PM »
Surely the point of naming a stop allows people to know where to get off.

Works well in London when it's integrated into a visual ibus type system.

So when using Google or local directions isn't it just as important to have a known name even if it's not factual 100%

On the subject I believe that in Peterborough the official.name for the stops by the court are Rivergate but still displays "Woolworths"....that confusion is surely what's to be avoided (although Peterborough doesn't use internal visual stop names)

Offline alanv

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Re: Out of date bus stop locations
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2019, 08:42:34 PM »
TOFT has a stop listed by the Stagecoach on line timetable as Toft Red Lion.
The Stagecoach on line App has it as Toft School Lane.
Traveline has it listed as Toft nr School Lane.
I do not know what is on the current printed timetable.
On older printed timetables it was listed as Toft village green and the Toft School Lane after the Red Lion closed. The Stagecoach timetable has only recently reverted back to the historical Red Lion usage.
The Red Lion is now the Tai Yuen Chinese restaurant and takeaway as shown on google and open maps.
I do not think that the Stagecoach Operations, Commercial and IT departments communicate very well at times.
Do the Commercial department produce the timetables, the IT department the on line App and the County Council the information for the traveline site?

Offline John Wakefield

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Re: Out of date bus stop locations
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2019, 08:45:43 AM »
What happens if Church St would be 1 to 2 miles long with 6 or 7 stops on route, do they name all 7 Church Street

Traveline list them (for example) as Church Street nr Bakers Close, Church Street nr Mill Lane etc ie using the names of the nearest side road off Church Street.
The old way of naming stops goes back to the old days of bus conductors when passengers would ask for the bus to stop at say 'The Red Lion please' as back then pubs were not changing names or closing like wise the Post Office was not likely to move or close down. Every one knew these places. These days these names are probably not so important as its up to the passenger to ring the bell on the approach to their stop.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 08:54:45 AM by John Wakefield »

Offline HughT

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Re: Out of date bus stop locations
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2019, 08:52:36 AM »
Looking at the various bus timetables many still have out of date lications, ie Stapleford Post Office which closed years ago. Bus compaines (and local authorities) need to get these put right, much better to use street names rather than premises that a liable to change over the years. So the stop at Stapleford should be renamed Church Street.

I'm not always rushing to defend my County Council (!), but on this occasion I need to. The former "Post Office" stop in Stapleford really is called "Church Street" in the national database. And that's what shows up (unsurprisingly) in Traveline and Vix, and in products based on their data. Speaking personally, having lived in Cambridge (but in the City) for 44 of the last 49 years, I have no idea where the former Post Office used to be (although I can guess, given where commercial properties are in Stapleford), so any bus company continuing to use "Post Office" isn't helping me. In Shelford it's positively misleading, since the Post Office has relocated some distance from its former location, and if you think the Citi 7 is going to drop you at the PO you're sadly mistaken!

It's perhaps worth adding that the national database is freely available for downloading. More info:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-public-transport-access-node-schema

Offline HughT

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Re: Out of date bus stop locations
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2019, 09:03:43 AM »
Traveline list them (for example) as Church Street nr Bakers Close, Church Street nr Mill Lane etc ie using the names of the nearest side road off Church Street.

There's also provision in the schema for using precise designations such as "o/s 48" (as in "o/s 48 High Street" - a real example in Warboys). I suppose that Warboys example might equally have used "Library" (which it's directly outside) - except, again, there's no guarantee the library will be there for much longer... - or "Pathfinder Way", the name of the street just a little way to the west (but perhaps just a little too far from the stop?).

Offline John Wakefield

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Re: Out of date bus stop locations
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2019, 09:27:23 AM »
I'm not always rushing to defend my County Council (!), but on this occasion I need to. The former "Post Office" stop in Stapleford really is called "Church Street" in the national database. And that's what shows up (unsurprisingly) in Traveline and Vix, and in products based on their data. Speaking personally, having lived in Cambridge (but in the City) for 44 of the last 49 years, I have no idea where the former Post Office used to be (although I can guess, given where commercial properties are in Stapleford), so any bus company continuing to use "Post Office" isn't helping me. In Shelford it's positively misleading, since the Post Office has relocated some distance from its former location, and if you think the Citi 7 is going to drop you at the PO you're sadly mistaken!

It's perhaps worth adding that the national database is freely available for downloading. More info:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-public-transport-access-node-schema

This is the site of the old Stapleford Post Office which closed some 20 years ago, to become a photographer's studio but now a private house. https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1438592,0.1470669,3a,60y,194.6h,83.83t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXRGExmJKzIVavJVt7gnDGQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DXRGExmJKzIVavJVt7gnDGQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D146.77298%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656