Author Topic: Timetableworld.com - 1961 ABC Coach Guide  (Read 1133 times)

Offline Barry

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Timetableworld.com - 1961 ABC Coach Guide
« on: March 27, 2021, 11:25:25 PM »
I don't know if it's just me that didn't know this, but did other people know that https://timetableworld.com/ now has some bus and coach timetables, including a fascinating scan of the 1961 ABC Coach Guide?

Offline TCD813

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Re: Timetableworld.com - 1961 ABC Coach Guide
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2021, 11:09:26 AM »
Thank you for this, I had been alerted to it before but it might not have been on this site.

Of particular interest to me are the Portsmouth area joint timetable and the Brighton area joint timetable. In both of these city areas the BET subsidiary, Southdown Motor Services, was instrumental in setting up coordinated services.

In and around Portsmouth this was with the City of Portsmouth Passenger Transport Department. In the Brighton area it was with Brighton Corporation Transport Department and the BTC subsidiary Brighton Hove and District Omnibus Company.

Mileage and revenues were shared on an agreed proportion, return and season tickets were valid across operators.
TCD813? The reg of a Southdown Motor Services, Northern Counties bodied, Leyland Titan PD3/4 FH39/30F (popularly dubbed 'Queen Mary') from the late 50s.
There's all 'manor' of stuff on my Twitter A/c.

Offline Elsworth Fox

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Re: Timetableworld.com - 1961 ABC Coach Guide
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2021, 06:12:54 PM »
As someone who worked for Southdown between '62 and '66, I remember both the Portsmouth and Brighton agreements.  Part of my training was as a conductor  in Portsmouth.  The agreement meant we could pick up short distance passengers throughout the city on the country services.  On those coming up Commercial Road meant you got a real bashing, even in the off peak.  In order to balance out the mileage, Portsmouth Corporation buses used to be used on Southdown services.  I don't remember any year when Southdown buses operated on Corporation services, nor any similar arrangements in Brighton.  Although the Brighton scheme, BATS as it was known, was supposed to eliminate wasteful competition, Southdown maintained a circuitous service to Woodingdean competing with a direct service operated by Brighton Corporation.  The Southdown service was very little used and when the company ran into difficulties with staff shortages in 1965, journeys on the service were not operated.  At it's worst, the advertised half-hourly service didn't run at all between morning and evening peaks.  Occasionally, London coach drivers, on lay overs in Brighton,  would operate a couple of journeys during the midday period.

Offline TCD813

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Re: Timetableworld.com - 1961 ABC Coach Guide
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2021, 11:05:12 AM »
As someone who worked for Southdown between '62 and '66, I remember both the Portsmouth and Brighton agreements.  Part of my training was as a conductor  in Portsmouth.  The agreement meant we could pick up short distance passengers throughout the city on the country services.  On those coming up Commercial Road meant you got a real bashing, even in the off peak.  In order to balance out the mileage, Portsmouth Corporation buses used to be used on Southdown services.  I don't remember any year when Southdown buses operated on Corporation services, nor any similar arrangements in Brighton.  Although the Brighton scheme, BATS as it was known, was supposed to eliminate wasteful competition, Southdown maintained a circuitous service to Woodingdean competing with a direct service operated by Brighton Corporation.  The Southdown service was very little used and when the company ran into difficulties with staff shortages in 1965, journeys on the service were not operated.  At it's worst, the advertised half-hourly service didn't run at all between morning and evening peaks.  Occasionally, London coach drivers, on lay overs in Brighton,  would operate a couple of journeys during the midday period.

I do remember Southdown vehicles and crew taking over the 23/24 Highbury Estate to Wymering (Mablethorpe Road) for a month or so, to balance out milage. The CPPTD vehicles on this route were dual-door PAYE single deckers, whereas the SMS vehicles were crewed, open platform double-deckers.

I can't remember the year, if you don't recall this during your four years with Southdown, I think this must have been in 1960 or '61. I don't think SMS had many open-platform 'deckers still in service by 1967, with the widespread introduction of the 'Queen Mary' front-entrance (FH39/30F) vehicles, which first appeared on the 45-group Southsea–Warsash services, to my recollection.

Edit: Add annotated map
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 11:08:07 AM by TCD813 »
TCD813? The reg of a Southdown Motor Services, Northern Counties bodied, Leyland Titan PD3/4 FH39/30F (popularly dubbed 'Queen Mary') from the late 50s.
There's all 'manor' of stuff on my Twitter A/c.

Offline Elsworth Fox

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Re: Timetableworld.com - 1961 ABC Coach Guide
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2021, 05:07:53 PM »
I do remember Southdown vehicles and crew taking over the 23/24 Highbury Estate to Wymering (Mablethorpe Road) for a month or so, to balance out milage. The CPPTD vehicles on this route were dual-door PAYE single deckers, whereas the SMS vehicles were crewed, open platform double-deckers.

I can't remember the year, if you don't recall this during your four years with Southdown, I think this must have been in 1960 or '61. I don't think SMS had many open-platform 'deckers still in service by 1967, with the widespread introduction of the 'Queen Mary' front-entrance (FH39/30F) vehicles, which first appeared on the 45-group Southsea–Warsash services, to my recollection.

Edit: Add annotated map
I was in Portsmouth for a year in 1964.  There were only a few open-platform double-deckers and these were mainly confined to peak hour extras and contracts.  The main services 31, 45 and the London Road were nearly all provided by PD3s.  There were some PD2s with doors, including a few with East Lancs bodies with sliding doors.  These rode very well and the crews called them 'Queen Marys'.  There were a few open top Guys which were used on the Hayling Island sea front service, although they sometimes wandered on to peak hour extras.

OPO single-deckers were used on the Portsmouth, Meon Valley, Alton and Havant, Rowlands Castle services.  There were also ten 36' Leopard 53 seaters.  Agreement hadn't been reached that they could be used as OPO vehicles so they, too, were used as peak hour extras, fairly wasteful for brand new vehicles, although at busy times they were hired by Triumph, then a Southdown subsidiary, for their express forces leave services and local excursions.  It must have been interesting for the sailors returning from Bristol to be faced with a bus. 

I do remember one Saturday when the Leopards were used as OPO vehicles on the Meon Valley service, at the request of the drivers.  There was an occasional fair in Alton and the drivers anticipated very heavy loading.  They were proved right, it was said that one of the early arrivals in the town had over 100 passengers on board.  Even then it had failed to pick up passengers in the villages close to Alton, so the driver double backed to make sure everybody got to the fair.